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I've barely read Joe M's blog in two months, for lack of time... and reading the comments there I get a feeling I should keep away a little longer; the anti-Keller sentiment gets on my nerves somewhat fierce.Yeah, I get it, some people don't like Keller, but I wish some commenters would stop with those generalizations. Hey, internets, I actually *was* at the Comic Con panel and, no, I didn't cheer for her als Kaylee or for her as Jewel; the cheering was for Keller, kthanx. Also, it is possible to be female fan and like the character. Yes, she's young and pretty and somewhat insecure and terrible in a fight. McKay used to be terrible in a fight, too... that's one of the things that drew me to the character. Argh. I have to remind myself that in the greater scheme of things it really isn't important and certainly doesn't warrant commenting there. *twitches*

flist, sorry for the early morning ranting... I shall make up for it with this vidlet rec: Atlantis opening credits, House Style

But... but Keller is awesome!

Thanks for the vid rec. :D

But... but Keller is awesome!

Yep. Well, I can sure see how people prefer other characters or are wary of McKeller (hey, I am wary of it on the show and I'm a shipper) or want lots of team screen time (thought I think so far it was all very balanced, so I don't understand that notion that, somehow, s5 will be all about the Keller... where does that come from? She wasn't even in DV...)

Anyway, I just don't get that extreme dislike. But I do think that it's only one very disgruntled, very loud faction that has set up camp at Mallozzi's blog. Because it looks exactly like last season, when a small group of Weir fans kept commenting and commenting and commenting how much the show sucked without her, making it appear that the collective fandom loathed S4. It's a phenomenon you get in blogs that are connected with the show - I think people are under the impression that their voices are heard and the direction of the show changed if they're only loud and persistent enough.

[btw: Pfützenhüpfer... heh! It took me only a few months to get that one.]

Edited at 2008-08-11 11:05 am (UTC)

Yes, not really getting the anti Keller sentiments either, I think she's sweet. I do understand though that people are getting a bit upset with the abundance of McKay and Keller spoilers and very little on Ronon, Teyla and Sheppard. And my sentiments on a McKay/Keller ship are basically "pleasefortheloveofgod, don't go there". But that's because I'm against SGA romance period, nothing against Keller.

I was surprised that Jewel spoke against the Comic Con clips on Youtube. She wrote in her blog she doesn't want something that is "private" Q&A between her and her Comic Con audience, broadcasted all over the world.

I was really happy with the Comic Con clips and now I feel I should ... y'know, not watch them to respect her wishes - which sucks, we can't all afford to fly to San Diego. (And it's good press, Jewel! You were great!) :)

As you know I love Jewel and I have nothing against Keller. My goodness, how could there be any drama if all the characters are the same - brave,heroic, physically outstanding and always know all the answers (oops - that is SGA).

Jewel is being a bit unrealistic if she believes that a conversation between her and 4,000 people in an open forum is private. Have a look at YouTube and you will see at least 2 or three videos from the stars of Heroes filmed a Comic Con. They understand what it is all about. Jewel should too, this kind of thing is what caused "Done the Impossible" with Firefly. If it really was a "private" conversation then fine. Comic Con is about publicity.

I totally agree.

My goodness, how could there be any drama if all the characters are the same - brave,heroic, physically outstanding and always know all the answers

Exactly. People keep complaining how whiny and incompetent Keller was in 'Missing', as opposed to Teyla. But really, if we had two characters just like Teyla in that situation, would that've made a better episode? I think not.

I'd agree with casett. Much as I would like to respect her wishes, in that case I think it's unreasonable to ask. A Comic Con panel isn't a private event and in fact we were only told to refrain from filming the official MGM clips, not the panel itself, unless my memory deceives me.

I don't really see a fundamental difference in writing a detailed panel report, and posting the thing on YouTube, to be honest.

Can't stop the signal.

And my sentiments on a McKay/Keller ship are basically "pleasefortheloveofgod, don't go there".

I ship the pairing and I'm still not sure I'd want them to go there. I like to see UST on my shows, I don't want it to be all about the shipping. Leave that to us fans. :)

eta: Hahahhahaa... did you read this part of Mallozzi's Mailbag?
Aqualegia writes: “I heartily dislike Keller - I really can’t get past the dithering and the constant whiny voice…”

Answer: Well, see, it’s because certain fans are so vocal about their dislike for the character that we’re really making a concerted effort to redeem the character in their eyes. If everybody had liked her, then we probably would have redirected our efforts elsewhere. Like, say, Sheppard for instance.


*G* You gotta leave it to Joe, he knows how to poke'em. What is more, looks like some commenters took him seriously.

Edited at 2008-08-11 11:32 am (UTC)

Here's the link to Jewel's blog before I start misquoting her or taking her out of context. :D

I had *no* idea there was "a world of anti-Keller threads". I lead such a sheltered life. Really.

Under 7. is her peeve about YouTube. Now me, I'd say a fan convention with free publicity is probably her best shot if she wants her audience to warm up to her character, but who am I. I watched the Comic Con clips for The Flan anyway - and I'm pretty sure he's against YT as well, but hey, if it weren't for Youtube I would never have heard of this show and spent my money elsewhere instead of buying DVD sets and action figures. *g*

If everybody had liked her, then we probably would have redirected our efforts elsewhere. Like, say, Sheppard for instance.

Oh god. Burning match in a keg of gunpowder. They're already so pissed that Flanigan is hardly ever mentioned. *G*

Oh god. Burning match in a keg of gunpowder. They're already so pissed that Flanigan is hardly ever mentioned. *G*

Heh. That was still rather gentle poking by Joe M's standards. ;) I mean, if someone came to my blog to insult a co-worker, I might be tempted to poke them much harder.

I had *no* idea there was "a world of anti-Keller threads". I lead such a sheltered life. Really.

Yeah, same here. I'm guessing she's talking about gateworld, maybe? I don't know about Mallozzi's blog; haven't been around in a while... I don't remember quite that much character bashing. Well, since this time last year, when people where busy bashing Sam.

I read Jewel's blog post. Sucks that she's letting the negativity get to her. Like I said in my comic con post... seeing her reaction to the cheering was really gratifying. You could see her face light up. :)

Okay, so in conclusion: I'll ignore the naysayers and enjoy the Comic Con clips. *G*

I don't understand the Keller hate, especially the Keller hate that comes from folks who resent her for "replacing" Carson. I saw so many Carson-supporters last season call her weak and whiney, and it seemed a tad nuts considering Carson canonically cried twice, and neither time involved him being chased by cannibals.

I'm of the opinion 'live and let live.' After all, I didn't want Sam to command Atlantis, and she turned out to be awesome; I didn't want Woolsey in charge, and he kills me, he's so fun. No matter what I might imagine I know about the show, the show keeps surprising me. If folks would stop digging in their heels and believing the only possible fun there is is in the version of the show *they'd* write, I think there'd be a bunch more joy to go around.

I saw so many Carson-supporters last season call her weak and whiney, and it seemed a tad nuts considering Carson canonically cried twice, and neither time involved him being chased by cannibals.

Heh. True. And besides, having two tough-as-nails characters like Teyla in that scenario would seem much less interesting. They search for a good hide-out, get hold of the weapons cache, kill all the Molokai [sp?], episode over after 10 minutes? No, wait, they have to apprehend the Genii spy. Make that 15 minutes.

Call me crazy, I like a bit of diversity in my cast. :P

I'm of the opinion 'live and let live.' After all, I didn't want Sam to command Atlantis, and she turned out to be awesome; I didn't want Woolsey in charge, and he kills me, he's so fun.

I was sorry to see Sam leave, but I already liked Picardo from 'Voyager' so I had high expectations. And he's been fun to watch so far, should be interesting to watch where they're taking the character.

No matter what I might imagine I know about the show, the show keeps surprising me. If folks would stop digging in their heels and believing the only possible fun there is is in the version of the show *they'd* write, I think there'd be a bunch more joy to go around.

Yeah, why not wait with the fretting until the episodes have actually aired...

Well, at least it would be nice if certain people would stop commenting at the producer's blog with their totally-not-made-up statistics of how 97% of fandom totally hatez on Keller. Srsly. :/

Keller has grown on me a lot; I like Jewel Staite, and my initial meh-ness towards Keller had more to do with some of the clunky ways she was characterised initially. There's nothing wrong with having a character who's less experienced and uncertain in their role, but some of the ways they highlighted that in the first half of the fourth season didn't work so well for me: in 'Missing' Keller's homesickness is contrasted with Teyla losing her entire people and comes across as trivial when it doesn't have to (because they ARE in another galaxy; the woman's allowed to be homesick). In Quarantine she talks about the difficulty of growing up a prodigy, which, again, fine, except she's telling this to Ronon, who has enough reason for angst in his little finger than the entire regular cast put together. That stopped in the latter part of s4, and I warmed to her a lot more.

I have no desire to see any serious romances on SGA between any of the characters; I get all my 'shippy needs from fic and vids, and I don't need or really want the show to go there. In Angel fandom, I was an Angel/Cordy shipper, but I was perfectly happy to read and write fic for the pairing without wanting to see it happen in canon, and when it did happen in canon, it wasn't (imho) handled terribly well. And SGA is just terrible at handling ongoing relationships -- Kanaan isn't a character at all, just a handy babysitting plot device.

Keller has grown on me a lot; I like Jewel Staite, and my initial meh-ness towards Keller had more to do with some of the clunky ways she was characterised initially. There's nothing wrong with having a character who's less experienced and uncertain in their role, but some of the ways they highlighted that in the first half of the fourth season didn't work so well for me: in 'Missing' Keller's homesickness is contrasted with Teyla losing her entire people and comes across as trivial when it doesn't have to (because they ARE in another galaxy; the woman's allowed to be homesick).

It took a couple eps for the character to find the right note, but actually 'Missing' was the ep where she clicked for me. The characterization worked for me. It's hard to look good in a situation like that, when you're partnered with Teyla, and I loved their dynamic. She didn't come across to me as, um, more pathetic than I would've been in that situation. (Well, I don't have trouble with rope bridges, but I know that I wouldn't have been able to eat that slug >_<).

In Angel fandom, I was an Angel/Cordy shipper, but I was perfectly happy to read and write fic for the pairing without wanting to see it happen in canon, and when it did happen in canon, it wasn't (imho) handled terribly well.

That's a gentle way of saying it. ;) Yow, they screwed that one up, pretty much. Then redeemed themselves with 'You're Welcome' but still, it wasn't well handled overall.

Maybe that's why I'm extremely wary of canon ships, too. After reading the kind of C/A fic we got from you and Yahtzee and Kel and others, then to see what TPTB came up with was... yeah. I'll take the fic over that any day. I'd be quite content if the Atlantis show's writers don't go there at all, just leave it at the teasing and the UST.

Edited at 2008-08-11 09:42 pm (UTC)

Aaaargh. I really don't like character bashing in general -- it's pretty much anathema to my whole way of fanning -- but, hey, if someone wants to post a rant to their blog or get together for a Carson vs. Keller complaint-fest, who am I to stop them; I can't tell other people how to enjoy the show.

But bringing it to an official forum like this, where it can be read by the actress, by her friends and her boss -- that *really* ticks me off. Don't they realize she's a person too? I can understand being unhappy with how the character has been integrated into the show or with the way she's written (though personally, I like her a lot and I don't have any problems along those lines) and politely letting the show-runners know about it, sure. But bashing the character and the actress on the producer's blog the way some people do -- I just wish that these people would realize how awful their behavior is. They're making the rest of us fans look bad.

But bashing the character and the actress on the producer's blog the way some people do -- I just wish that these people would realize how awful their behavior is. They're making the rest of us fans look bad.

That's just it. It's incredibly rude and thoughtless. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the disgruntled factions tend to gather at official boards and blogs, or sites like Gateworld where TPTB are known to watch. I'm convinced some fans believe if they complain loud and long enough, their voices will be heard and the show changed according to their plans. (Yeah, that worked really well for the Weir fans... the incessant pro-Weir posters at Mallozzi's actually managed to sour me on the character... I liked her a lot more, before.)

I have zero problem with someone not liking a character and posting about it in their own blog. I for one really disliked Katie Brown rather a lot. But it never would've occurred to me to hop over to Joe's and share that fact with him and the internet at large, repeatedly, to try to make him write her out of the show.

And on top of that there's this annoying tendency to insist that because they don't like some development, and none of their friends does, obviously that's how everyone sees things, QED. I hate it when people speak for me like that. Makes me feel the urge to jump in there and delurk just to set facts straight. Aaaargh, indeed.

If it helps I haven't seen one bad thing said about Jewel even amongst people who are fairly ardent about their dislike of Keller - not to say that it can't have happened just because I haven't seen it, but I don't think it's common place and it certainly hasn't occured on JM's blog. I think the majority of people can easily seperate dislike of a fictional character from the actress and I'd be a tad wary of the people who couldn't.

I sympathise though - it sucks when you like something and other people dislike and articulate it, but unfortunately some things can just end up being polarising and people wont see eye to eye.

Though I really, really hope that none of the cast follows JM's blog, because god knows I'd stop commenting on there. :)

If it helps I haven't seen one bad thing said about Jewel even amongst people who are fairly ardent about their dislike of Keller -

Well, the thing is, when someone comments with something like "I heartily dislike Keller - I really can’t get past the dithering and the constant whiny voice…... that goes against Jewel as well as her character. In some cases, it's harder to separate the two.

Man, I hope she isn't reading there. Has his comment section been this negative and wanky all the time, or did I just catch a bad day?

I sympathise though - it sucks when you like something and other people dislike and articulate it, but unfortunately some things can just end up being polarising and people wont see eye to eye.

I have no problem, none at all, with someone not liking a character I like and saying so in their blog. It's the repeated spamming of Mallozzi's blog and random gateworld threads where I'm starting to twitch, and what really gets my goat are sweeping and WRONG, WRONG, WRONG generalizations like... hang on *browse*: Joe, I hate to break it to ya, but … she’s too far gone. I know how much you guys at production just luurve her, but for a large bulk of fandom she ain’t working. And it’s even started to annoy fandom that are just lukewarm towards her. I just want to yell at those posters to speak for themselves and not the rest of fandom. Then I tell myself that in the time it takes me to make an account over there and yell at them, I could draw fanart. That usually helps. ;)

On the upside even if some people honestly think that Keller is whiny and dithering I think that's more a case of the writing and direction the actress is being given - we've seen Jewel in other roles where she most definitely does not fit that perception and it's never been leveled at her before to my knowledge. Again I've seen people going out of their way that it's not the actress, because I'd say regardless of this particular character Jewel herself is pretty popular.

Has his comment section been this negative and wanky all the time, or did I just catch a bad day?

Bad day of venting. Sometimes you get that when someone raises something(whether positive, negative or inbetween) and it snowballs on that particular post and then it just moves on again.

Generalisations never ever help, but people unfortunately do tend to do it, rightly or wrongly. Hey, I wish they didn't myself. But people get passionate about something, hear their own thoughts echoed back to them in their corner of fandom, and suddenly they think that it must be what the majority of fandom thinks, whether it's actually true or not. Sometimes the provisos don't get added on like they should.

If it's knocking your squee I'd just avoid those areas and draw, as you say time taken up with more pleasant things is the better way to go. :) At the end of the day you'll have an easier time avoiding the anti-Kellers than they will have avoiding Keller on the show, so chalk it up to a win.

If it's knocking your squee I'd just avoid those areas and draw, as you say time taken up with more pleasant things is the better way to go. :) At the end of the day you'll have an easier time avoiding the anti-Kellers than they will have avoiding Keller on the show

Good point.

But, but... she wasn't even in last week's episode... I mean,we're 1/5 into season five and so far it hasn't been all about Keller. I guess I'm mostly bewildered where that idea is coming from. Then again, I only vaguely follow spoilers; I like to let myself be surprised.

so chalk it up to a win.

But I don't wanna win, I want everyone to be happy with the show. Well, okay, like that's ever gonna happen.

Anyway, you're right. I'll avoid the place for now and then carefully poke my head back in. And in the meantime I'll see if I can get a visual for that alternative idea for my livelong'nmarry piece. Way more productive.

But, but... she wasn't even in last week's episode... I mean,we're 1/5 into season five and so far it hasn't been all about Keller.

I think people are mostly reacting to recent spoilers that have come out and also some commentary by TPTB that have led to this latest bout of chatter. Plus Keller's been a part of the show for a season and a bit and I think most people have pretty much made up their minds at this point on whether she's their cup of tea or not.

On the bright side, Woolsey seems to have gone down pretty well, so there's always that. :D

In a vein opposite from concerns about Keller's weakness, I've recently been wondering about the impact of so many, perhaps too many 'strong' female characters in genre.
What's the potential result of young women seeing so many examples of female characters *routinely* kicking men's asses physically? A rude awakening some day?

Are you serious, too many strong female characters? Do you have any ideas how *great* it feels to finally have some role models that kick ass? And they're not nearly enough, the playing field is far from leveled.

There're a ton of ass-kicking male characters with near-superpower strength... do you think boys who're watching them are in for a rude awakening later when they notice that, shit, those ninja ass-kicking tricks seemed way easier on tv!

I doubt young women and girls watching those shows will grow up with the impression that they can do as the slayer does. What I do think is that overall, having stong female characters will raise women's self-esteem in general. Maybe even gives them more motivation to fight back when they're assaulted. I don't know, haven't read any studies. I certainly would recommend martial arts classes rather than watching tv to make sure you won't be a defenseless victim.

I studied martial arts for ten years or so. Physical strength isn't everything, and can be very effectively used against you with the right techniques and proper training.

So, in conclusion, couldn't disagree more. I disagree so much that I sat down and replied without even having had my first cup of tea. ;)